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Well, you have to have the meal. You got to precook the meat. And then season it. Then ground it up. And then you take the broth off of the meat and make your meal up with it. And that’s the way it--You know…that’s how you go about doin’ it.
–Pearl Johnson

Pearl Johnson has been making hot tamales by hand for fifty years. Originally from Charleston, Mississippi, her first job was at the old Lucas Bar-B-Que in Greenwood, where she learned to make this unique Delta delicacy. After Lucas Bar-B-Que closed its doors, Mrs. Johnson worked at the Baldwin Piano factory in town until it closed. Now Mrs. Johnson’s daughter owns her own place, Reno’s Cafe, and Mrs. Johnson makes tamales there regularly. She also sells them to other restaurants in Greenwood, namely the new Giardina’s and The Flatland Grill. When asked if she has a secret to making her tamales, Mrs. Johnson replies, “Well, no. Not really. It’s just the idea of knowing, you know, how much stuff to use in it.” And she definitely uses all the right stuff. Mrs. Johnson’s tamales are some of the best tamales around.

Edited Transcript

What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. Download the FULL TRANSCRIPT in PDF form (104K) by clicking this link. (Adobe Acrobat Reader required)

Subject: Pearl Johnson, Reno Cafe (tamale maker)
Date: June 9 & 11, 2003
Location: Mrs. Johnson's residence
Interviewer: Amy Evans

Amy Evans: All right. It is Monday, June ninth, two thousand and three, and this is Amy Evans at 118 Vardaman Street in Greenwood, Mississippi, interviewing--

Pearl Johnson: Annie Pearl Johnson.

Who, um, makes some fabulous tamales. And, um, may I ask your age, Mrs. Johnson?

Sixty-seven.

Okay, and are you, uh, a life-long resident of Greenwood?

I've been here since I was sixteen [1952].

From where did your family move? Or why did your family move?

Well, my father was living here and I came to live with him when I was sixteen years old.

Okay, well, where are you from?

Eh, Charleston.

Charleston, South Carolina?

No. Charleston, Mississippi! [Laughs]

Okay. Have to clarify. I did drive through there once.

[Laughing]

Um, so how did you learn to make tamales?

I started working at Lucas barbecue stand when I was eighteen [1954].

Um, can you tell me a little bit about Lucas barbecue? I've been hearing a little bit about that.

Well, he made barbecue, hot tamales, hamburgers. And at that time, you know, we had a car-hoping place. And so that's how I started off working there. And I worked there, I worked there about--I worked till he closed. Well, he passed and then she closed the business up.

And where was that located?

At, um, on Avenue F. On the corner of Avenue F and Percy Street.

Do you remember kind of what year they closed?

[Pause] Mmmm, could be like sixty-seven, I think. Sixty-six or sixty-seven, I ain't for sure.

Hum, and then did they just retire or--

Well, he passed away and then about a year later she just retired.

Okay. And do I understand correctly that that was a white woman with a black man that ran that place? Were they married?

No, they weren't married. He was white and she was black.

He was white. Okay. And how'd they do? They were popular? I have been hearing good things about that barbecue.

Well, she could so some GOOD barbecue.

Yeah.

She did all the, you know, the cooking, barbecuing, and making hot tamales--and that's how I learned how to do it.

Huh. And when did you--you just kept making them on your own after you left?

Well, it was--it was about--about ten years ago, after my daughter started running the restaurant then I started making them.

Okay, and your daughter runs Reno CafÈ.

Reno Cafe on McLaurin.

On McLaurin. And why did she decide to open a cafÈ?

Well, I had been working for this guy and then she started working for him, and after he passed, she just kept the place.

And what's your daughter's name?

LeUnice Gray

And so did you kind of--How did you remember the recipe from Luca's?

Well, I--before she passed, I had started making them, you know.

Uh-hum.

And when she passed, then I would do a lot of the cooking. Like making hot tamales and making the sauce for the barbecue and stuff.

Do you have a secret for your tamales?

Well [chuckles], no. Not really. It's just [laughs] the idea of knowing, you know, how much stuff to use in it.

Uh-huh. Do you know where she got the recipe?

I sure don't.

Huh.

Cause when I came to Greenwood, they were there on that corner. I think they started off down there on McLaurin, and then they moved down there. [Pause] So I don't know--I don't know --when she got them by tasting somebody that was selling them, and she just start, you know, when she found out the ingredients that they used, just tried it and it worked.

Hum. And so how many tamales do you think you make--in a day or a week or a--

About twenty-five or thirty dozen.

----------

And do you have a lot of carry-out business over there? Do people eat in? Or both?

Well, it's both.

Uh-hmm. And I--so I know you sell your tamales to Giardina's Restaurant. Do you sell anywhere else?

There's a lady over at the Flat Top, she buy em. [Flatland Grill]

The Flat Top? Where is that? Over on [highway] 82?

Uh-huh. Back over in there off of Fred's Dollar Store.

Well, when did you do that kind of selling out of the restaurant?

Hmm, well, I think the Flat Top [Flatland Grill] been open about--it's been open about a year, I think. [Toddler crying in background. A woman walks in the house with a young boy.] And well, Giardina's just started getting them

Uh-hmm. You like that? That your tamales are that popular?

Well [smiling], I enjoy it.

----------

Yeah. Well, you think you'll make tamales as long as--

As long as I'm able.

Yeah.

I will.

And how much to they cost for a dozen?

Five dollars.

Five dollars? Do you make different kinds or just one?

Hot and mild.

Is the hot on the inside or is that the sauce that goes on it?

Well, they--they hot. It's hot! [Laughing]

[Laughing] It's hot!

[Laughing]

And are they all pork tamales?

They made out of beef.

Beef? All beef?

All beef.

I didn't realize that. [Pause]. There's not a--is there a tradition of pork tamales around here?

Not as I know of. I don't know. Somebody make them in Greenville. I don't know, you know, what--what kind they make.

----------

Okay. And then, just--I though maybe you could just kind of describe the steps in making a tamale.

Well, you have to have the meal. You got to precook the meat. And then season it. Then ground it up. And then you take the broth off of the--meat and make your meal up with it. [Pause] And that's the way it--[pause]. You know, that's--that's--that's how you go about doin' it. [Laughing] You have to use the broth to make the meal up.

Uh-hum.

So the meal goes around the tamales.

Uh-hum. And then you said you cook them in that sauce.

Uh-huh. [Pause] And you just roll out and wrap it in a--they call it a parchment paper. And tie 'em up, and then you cook 'em in that sauce.

You don't ever wrap them in the cornhusks?

[Shakes head "no."]

Why not?

Well, the corn shucks is real expensive, and then you have to boil 'em and--and--

Too much trouble?

A lot of 'em tear up. They real good with the corn shucks, now. They taste--to me the taste better, but--they're hard to find.

----------

What is it--what's in the sauce? Without giving too much away.

It's--you make it up out of tomato paste.

Uh-hum.

Tomato paste and water and put you some salt in. Cook 'em in it.

Uh-hum.

That's--after you make 'em you have to cook 'em in that sauce.

How long does it take you to make a dozen tamales? How many do you make at a time, maybe?

Like I said, about twenty-five or thirty dozen. It take about--a good five hours.

My goodness. You make 'em every single day?

Ohhh, Lo-ord. [Laughing]. No!

[Laughing]

No way! That's too much work. [More laughing]

Well, how often do you make them then?

Once or twice a week.

Oh, okay.

And just fill the orders and make enough for your daughter's place to keep people happy?

Right. Cause it's too much makin' tamales to make 'em every day. [Short laugh] I'd sure enough be wore out.

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