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Interviews by Amy Evans.
This project was produced in conjunction with the Smithsonian's
traveling exhibit "Key Ingredients"
and
is sponsored by the
Mississippi Humanities Council,
the
Yoknapatawpha Arts Council,
the Southern Foodways Alliance, and
the Lafayette County City of
Oxford Public Library
Starnes Catfish Place
Abbeville, MS :: 1979-1990
"He fished, along with [having] the store. [H]e caught catfish and, well, everything out there. And... for the first two years, we served his fish. And it was wonderful. [A]nything wild has a better taste. All the commercial fish has -- one bite tastes like another... And it got so big, we had to start buying fish." -- Martha Starnes
Billy Starnes was a commercial fisherman, who caught everything that would brush up against his line at Sardis Lake. In 1979 he talked his wife into expanding their fish and bait shop business to include a cafe, where he could show off his finest catch, as well as some mouthwatering recipes. Starnes Catfish Place in Abbeville quickly became a popular spot. With their famously generous plates of fish, slaw and their unique onion salad, the couple couldn't keep the crowds away. Billy Starnes passed away a few years ago, but Martha is still feeding the masses. Abbeville Catfish, a place she and her husband originally opened in the early 1990s, is under her watch once again. A few things have changed, but the great food and warm welcome have certainly stayed the same.
What
follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for
length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please
click this link. (Adobe Acrobat Reader required)
STARNES CATFISH PLACE
Subject: Martha Starnes, original owner
Date: July 22, 2004 @ 8:00am
Location: Wal-Mart Cafe -- Oxford, MS
Interviewer: Amy Evans
Amy Evans: This is Thursday, July... twenty-second, two thousand and four. And I'm at the Wal-Mart in Oxford, Mississippi, with Mrs. Martha Starnes [where she works as a greeter], and we're in the cafe here... And I'm here to ask you about the old catfish place in Abbeville [Mississippi], called Starnes Catfish, correct?
Martha Starnes: Starnes Catfish Place.
And how did that open? And when?
We first went in the business in nineteen sixty-four. We bought a small store. And just the little twenty by thirty-foot building, with two gas pumps. And business was so good. It kept growing, so we added a bait shop on one end. And then we built a house on the back -- two-bedroom house. Well, people weren't satisfied; they wanted us to start cooking breakfast. So we started cooking breakfast. And it got so big, with all the bass clubs coming from all the other towns, that they started hollering, "Catfish! Start cooking catfish!" So we started cooking catfish in this little place that we'd built on the back of the bait shop. And I guess it would seat, uh [short pause] about eighty people. Well, the first night we opened, the -- the air conditioner went out. And, uh, we started out there. And it got so big that we eventually had to close the bait shop part, make that into a restaurant. So we went like that for several years. And it was just so packed, we just finally had to close the store part and make the whole thing into a restaurant. And they were lined up out the door. You couldn't get a parking place for a half-mile up the road. And it was very, very good, if I do have to say so myself. My husband and I cooked in the kitchen with our daughter and his sister.
What are all their names?
[M]y husband, Billy Starnes, who is now deceased -- for three years. My daughter, Sherry Starnes, and his sister, Flora Dulin. And we made all the recipes ourselves. Did all the slaw, the hushpuppies, uh, used to call it "dago salad," but we had some complaints on the radio, so we now have to call it onion salad.
You called it "dago salad" just because it was Italian-style salad?
Well, it [the recipe] was from the next door neighbor that we bought the store from, that's what he called it. And I don't see anything wrong with it. Uh, that was just an old-fashioned name, and that's what it was so -- but we had to change it. And, uh [short pause] uh, they would, uh -- I would -- I eventually got out of the kitchen. We had this huge glass -- just, you know, as big as this or bigger [Mrs. Stares points to a big plate-glass window in the Wal-Mart cafe that's about ten by twelve feet]. It was just a huge plate-glass, where they could look into the kitchen. And we were so proud of what we were doing, they'd all come stick their head in the door and, you know, say how much they enjoyed it, let us know they were there. And they could see us cooking, so everything had to just be kept spotless, and we always got a hundred percent on our [short pause] health report. She [the inspector] said she didn't even have to come check us because she knew we were doing right, and she didn't have to worry about us. And, uh, I would -- I finally got up front and started seating people. And I would see them running across the parking lot, trying to get there before the people behind them -- trying to get the last table. And, um, we ran that Ôtil -- we started in nineteen seventy-nine on the catfish, I think I said, [Serving catfish, that is] and ran it Ôtil nineteen eighty-six, where we sold it.
Where was it exactly in Abbeville?
It was on Hurricane Landing Road, going towards Sardis Lake. Um, just an old store. If you'd drive up to it, you would never think it was a place to eat.
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Well,
what was your inspiration for starting a restaurant?
My husband was a fisherman... He fished, along with [having] the store. Uh, he caught catfish and, well, everything out there. And, uh, for the first two years, we served his fish. And it was wonderful. All -- anything wild has a better taste. All the commercial fish has -- one bite tastes like another... It all tastes the same.
Did he fish out at Sardis [Lake]?
Yes. And it got so big, we had to start buying fish. And, uh, he just -- we were so careful and so ticky, everything -- and we watched every plate that went out of the kitchen. Had some wonderful help. And, um, [short pause] I would, of course -- making our own recipes, everything that was made, we would taste. Most of them, they just make it up and send it out regardless, so, uh -- And we sold it in nineteen eighty-six? And I stayed on for, uh, four more years, running the cash register and helping seat people to keep the business -- to keep the people coming in because they would come every weekend. And it was so good, and they [the customers] were so loyal, if they were going out of town for a vacation, they would call and tell us that they wouldn't be out that weekend. They never missed a weekend. Some of them would come in twice a week.
And you'd just open on the weekends?
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
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Can you maybe share how y'all prepared your catfish? How you cooked it?
It's very simple. It's very simple. Uh, it would come in ice-packed frozen. I mean, fresh. On -- packed in ice. And we would cut it. And, uh, score it, which makes a little cut down the center so the grease will get all the way through. We cooked it on, uh, three hundred and fifty degrees. And it took exactly ten minutes per batch. You could just about time it. And, uh, if the fish was frozen, it took eight minutes. Doesn't take as long to cook frozen fish. And, uh, we just, uh, bagged it up in ice bags. Punched holes in there so it'd drain well, and then when we got it out, we'd spread it this -- a pan with a -- tray with a [short pause] thing in the bottom. And, uh, the fish had to be pretty well dry. And we just used, uh, self-rising Sunflower [corm] meal. Had to be Sunflower... And a little bit of flour. And salt and pepper. And that was it. Uh, you don't want any heavy breading on it. So, it was just wonderful. And, uh, we had whole fish. That was a favorite too. And they liked -- we had this one guy that came in one night, and -- the [fried catfish] tail was so good. It's real crunchy. And he ordered a plate of whole fish. He ate the tails and sent the fish back.
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[W]e
sold [Starnes Catfish Place], and I stayed on for four more years. Kept
the business going.
Who'd you sell it to?
And then, uh -- Susie and Steve McCollum from Alabama. They did real good while I was there. And, uh, I guess after four years I retired. And then, uh, my husband was always -- he did everything -- he had a reason for everything. And [his plan] was to buy [the restaurant] and get it built up and make money. So I think in two more years, we opened another one. It's called Abbeville Catfish. And it was a blast. It was so big. It had so many people, the -- I -- you won't believe this. [Slaps hand on table] The first night we was open the transformer blew. It was packed! So most of the people that night got their food free. We, uh -- they went out, and they shined their lights through the windows, so we could see how to get people out and everything. And, oh! You talk about a mess. We thought somebody had shot the transformer out! [Laughs] But it did real good. And, uh, we ran it Ôtil -- food was the same. We started off two years with the plates, and then we went to a buffet. And it was really, really good.
Is that the place now that's on highway seven?
Yes, uh-huh. We sold it. We ran it for four years, got it built up, sold it to Butch Scott -- Harvey Scott. And he kept it going, but his was mostly college people... And, uh, most of the old customers fell by the wayside -- the ones that we had. So I got the restaurant back in January of [short pause] two-o-four [2004], sold it again in March to Pat Patterson, and [short pause] so we're back up there again. All the old customers came back. For twenty-four years now... They come every weekend. And it's just getting bigger every week. Been open about three months, with very, very little advertising. We like the word of mouth... And it's done got the old recipes. No buffet. And I just hope it continues to go. Uh, my daughter's in the kitchen doing the recipes, and I'm out front seating and greeting. They told me all I had to do was smile. [Laughs] Talk to people and smile. And I just hope it continues to do good.
[W]hat is Angelo Mistilis's involvement over there?
Okay, he's been in the restaurant business all his life too. I'm sure he told you. And he is kind of a manager -- overseer -- just like -- He said that he and I didn't want to work. [Laughs] We were -- we just wanted to be there and make sure it went right... Everything was like it's supposed to be. He brought his famous hamburger steak up there... And, uh, of course, all these college kids grew up on it, and they're coming back to eat more now. And it is very good. And, um, he's a good man.
Can we talk a little bit more about the menu and what you served?
In the old place [Starnes Catfish Place]?
Yeah. Describe the "dago" salad and what's in it and what other sides you served.
Oh, yeah. Of course, we had the fillet and the whole catfish. We had butterfly shrimp. Chicken tenders. [Short pause] We didn't have an extended, uh, menu in the old place because most of them wanted fish. Oh, we had steak. We had a rib-eye steak. Uh [crashing sound in the background], grilled chicken breast. [Short pause] But in the -- oh, and the hushpuppies -- we don't measure anything. Now, that's what's a problem [short pause] is they said they had to have us up there -- they wanted to name the new restaurant Starnes, and I said no. Well, they wanted me to run it, and I said no. And the hushpuppies consist of self-rising Sunflower meal and self-rising flour, sugar, onion, eggs, buttermilk and water. [Short pause] And we just don't measure anything. And, uh, we know what's right, which is hard to tell anyone. And the onion salad is, uh, simply a cheap red vinegar, onions and tomato. You can either used canned tomatoes -- you could pour the juice out -- or fresh tomatoes. And you just cover is in the red vinegar -- -not apple cider [vinegar]. And then you start adding sugar, stirring it until it quits making you pucker up, and it's ready. And it is so wonderful. And the slaw, we start off with, uh, Miracle Whip [salad dressing] -- start off with a gallon. You take half of that out and put in, uh, quite a bit of sugar, a little salt and a good bit of pepper. And you fill it the rest of the way up with water. And you whisk it together, and then you take it, and you shake it, and it is so fine. And, of course, you make two gallons out of one. And it lasts, um -- that's about all.
Was it hard to get used to cooking in those big quantities?
No. Uh, I think, um, we don't know exactly what -- still not what to do at the new place. Because we don't know who's coming and, uh, how many and -- but at the old place we had it down. And, uh, my husband is so careful and so ticky -- such a perfectionist. He took good care of everything. That fish had to be stored just right and like, we'd open on Wednesday. Well, Wednesday morning he'd lay that fish that we had left from the week before -- he'd put it in the ice bad, he'd mash it down, and he'd bring it out Wednesday morning, and we cooked it that night. And everything just always stayed -- we never had any problems. We never had anything returned.
------
Well,
what were your prices back at the old place.
Oh, cheap!... Oh, my gosh. Cheap. I think a filet plate was probably six ninety-five, a child's plate was three ninety-five, um, steak [was] seven ninety-five or eight ninety-five. And now it's like fourteen dollars. Um, chicken tenders [were] five ninety-five. We had an all you can eat [dinner] for, I would say, eight [short pause] ninety-five or nine ninety-five. And if you wanted to eat all night, that's what you got. And we kept it -- you know, most places you'll go and you get all you can eat. Well, they'll bring you this fish, but then when you order more, they try to wait you out Ôtil you get full. Well we always made sure they got it just right away. But, uh -- and if people came up early -- we opened at five -- they were there at four thirty, we let them in. We'd give them a drink and make them comfortable. And you try to get in any place -- anywhere else a minute before five -- We -- you just -- you know, the customer comes first. They always come first. And I'll tell all the help that. They come before any -- like here [at Wal-Mart, where Mrs. Starnes is a greeter], the customer comes first. That's all.
------
Were you a big cook at home, or are you still?
Yes. I couldn't cook at all when I was married. There was eight children of us. We had a wonderful time growing up, but Mama didn't make us do anything. I guess she wanted us outside. [announcement over the store's intercom] I couldn't cut a chicken up for the first year [of marriage]. My husband cut it up. He used to watch -- his father was a bad drinker, and so Billy would stay in the kitchen and watch his mother cook. Oh, he could cook anything. And he taught me how to cook. It's a wonder he hadn't starved to death.
And where -- are you all both from Abbeville originally or Lafayette County?
No, we moved... there when, uh -- we have one daughter, Sherry. Uh, she's forty-four [years old]. [Short pause] We were -- I lived -- we moved to Lafayette County when I was six. Started the first year at College Hill. And then we got closer and closer to town [Oxford]. We finally wound up a block from the square. And went to University High. And we walked. It was good. And, uh, we'd go uptown barefooted and [Laughs] -- shucks! We did those -- back in those days.
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Well, the catfish business has been good to you all.
Yes, it has. It has. And, of course, he was fishing all the time too... And selling -- and we sold fish out of the house. He had a fish house. And, uh, they'd [customers] come up all during the day and night. They didn't care if you were in bed or not. And he'd get up... there and go wait on them. [We] sold a lot of fish. A lot of fish. Fresh buffalo, fresh catfish. He fished for thirty [short pause] -- oh gosh, I guess forty years.
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Well, is there anything you'd like to add or final thoughts about the old place in Abbeville or being in the restaurant business?
You have to love it to do it. It's hard work. Um, there's always something to do. You may be -- just be open three days a week or whatever, but you're working seven. Something's always breaking down. People don't want to come to work. But when it runs smooth it's really nice.
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