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Interviews by Amy Evans.
This project was produced in conjunction with the Smithsonian's
traveling exhibit "Key Ingredients"
and
is sponsored by the
Mississippi Humanities Council,
the
Yoknapatawpha Arts Council,
the Southern Foodways Alliance, and
the Lafayette County City of
Oxford Public Library
Moonlite
Cafe at the Hoka Theater
Oxford, MS :: 1978-1996
"I would try to do a lot of things and sometimes when there [were] movies like Babette's Feast and movies that emphasized food -- [Like] Water for Chocolate -- I would try for the weeks that we were showing those movies to try serve something that was... from that movie. That's the advantage of having a kitchen in... with a movie theater." -- Ron Shapiro
Ron Shapiro made his way to Oxford in the late 1970s, and the town hasn't been the same since. Soon after arriving, he and a few others opened an art house movie theater, The Hoka. Adding a cafe seemed a logical next step, and so began the Moonlite Cafe. With late-night munchies, as well as more sophisticated movie-themed fare, the Moonlite Cafe became a haunt for local characters and celebrities alike. On any given night you might find students or professors, artists or writers, bellied up to the counter for a fix of the cafe's famous cheesecake or a bowl of vegetarian chili. Unfortunately, the curtain came down on The Hoka and its Moonlite Cafe in 1996, but Ron is still in Oxford, making plans for the next big idea to shake things up.
What follows is a portion of the original interview that
has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form,
please click this
link. (Adobe Acrobat Reader required)
Subject:
Ron Shapiro, owner
Date: July 27, 2004 @ 6:30pm
Location: Cocktail Party at the Kullman Home -- Oxford, MS
Interviewer: Amy Evans
Amy Evans: This is Amy Evans on Wednesday, July twenty-seventh, two thousand and four, at a cocktail party during the Faulkner Conference -- Oxford, Mississippi... And so I'm here to speak with you about The Hoka, primarily, and also the, um, restaurant you had there -- The Moonlite Cafe. Can you speak a little bit, um, first about where you're from and how you came to Oxford and then, how you opened the Hoka?
Ron Shapiro: Well I grew up in St. Louis, and in nineteen seventy-one I moved to, uh, Jackson Hole, Wyoming, where I first got involved in the movie business. And I -- I wanted to have something to have, uh, to have something to work at night, but I wanted my days free, so I could ski, so I came up with the idea of movies. And then I had met a couple girls that had gone to school here at the University [of Mississippi]. Had spent -- they were spending the summer in Yellowstone [National Park]. And I started seeing one of them, and I would come down here to visit her. And, uh, was ready to leave the winters of the North. And, um, even though we split up before I moved down here, I still -- I still came down here anyway and, um, really liked Oxford and, um, opened up a movie theatre in nineteen seventy-five and ran it as a movie theatre only for a couple years. We just sold the normal popcorn and hot dogs and stuff in the lobby. But, somewhere along around seventy-eight or seventy-nine, um, videos came in. What -- we used to pride ourself in the Hoka that we would show movies that no one could see any place else. And before video we, you know, we kind of had a monopoly on showing weird movies. Things like Harold and Maude and King of Hearts and, um, The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Well, maybe not Rocky Horror Picture Show but, uh, other movies. And then when video came in I realized anybody could see those movies, and I was no longer unique, so I had always wanted to be in the food business, and we turned our lobby into a -- a full-on cafe. And we would open right before the movies started, you know, like about six in the evening, and then we'd keep it open until about three in the morning. And, um, growing up in St. Louis, which is a really good food town, and growing up around tasty food in my family, um, I was determined that anything we'd sell would be made fresh everyday. And so one of the reasons that we were a success was because our food was good. A lot of places that were serving food -- -sand -- sandwiches and so forth like we were -- -were -- it was all prepared food or, you know, full of chemicals or the typical stuff. But we were baking turkey breasts everyday, and we made all of our sauces, all of our salad dressings, everyth -- we made everything from scratch.
Did you do a lot of the cooking yourself?
Uh, I sure did. I -- I didn't necessarily want to, but anyone that's been in the food business for a while knows that a -- a lot of times people do not show up so, uh, you had to learn how to do it. And a -- a-strange thing that happened was a girl that was a sorority girl from Connecticut came up to me one day, and said that, um, "My mother is a caterer, and we have an interesting recipe for a cheesecake." And I said, "Well, let's give it a try." And she started making cheesecakes for us, and they became so popular. It was incredible how many we would sell. And eventually, when she graduated, she, you know, turned the recipe over to me, and -- and that and between this hot fudge pie that we would serve warm with vanilla ice cream, those two deserts, uh, I think, actually made us famous. And it was funny because the, uh, one of our biggest clientele were the sorority girls. And it -- it was at a time when people were just starting to be concerned about weight, I think then. And people would come in and order hot fudge pie and a Diet Coke. And, you know, we -- -we almost should not have served that. But that was -- that was probably the most -- that or cheesecake and a Diet Coke. And then -- then Diet Coke was like the only diet drink, there was Diet Rite or -- but, uh, our -- our sandwich that we made with this fresh baked turkey breast was called a "Love at First Bite," and it had bacon on it.
Can
you speak a little bit, to set the scene of where the Hoka was in downtown
Oxford at the bottom of that hill and what the space was like physically?
It was, uh, it was at -- at the bottom of the hill. It was probably a hundred yards from the main Square of Oxford. It was, uh, due East of the Square. And it was, uh, it was next door to a place called the Avent Cotton Gin, which eventually became the Gin Restaurant and Bar. And the building was built as a warehouse to warehouse cotton. And because they didn't care what it looked like, um, they didn't even level the floor and the -- and the floor was pitched at an angle that turns out to be perfect for a movie screen. It had that slow pitch so that the people in the back could still see the screen -- because of the way the land pitched. And -- and that's the way the -- the cement was poured. So, you know, you talk about a karma thing that was set up for a movie theatre. You know just -- you -- just everything about it was right... And I remember when we went in there my, uh -- in nineteen seventy-five my rent was one hundred and seventy-five dollars a month.
For that whole space?
Yeah. And it was like three thousand square feet.
How'd you find it?
I just kept looking around, looking around, and some guy had -- was renting it and he was a guy that had a grudge against the Gin. And his -- his dream was that he was going to open up one day and sell beer for twenty-five cents just to put the Gin out of business. But he eventually got over his grudge and turned me on to the owner of the building. And as it turned out, the owner of the building told me the guy hadn't paid his rent in over a year. And, you know, it was -- it was just a lot of property available back then. And I, um, took it over and a group of us got together, and it took us six weeks -- there was nothing in there. There was no elec -- electricity in there. Or plumbing. And it took us six weeks to, uh, from zero to when we opened up. We just had -- it was like an old barn, uh, barn raising party, actually. Uh, there was a group -- there was three other guys that became my partners; they all invested a thousand here and there. And we opened up the place for, um, with -- with all the projectors and all the wiring and all the plumbing for a total of eleven thousand dollars.
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So how did the Cafe figure into all that?
Well the Cafe was on the other side of the wall, and it was interesting, though, because, um, the cafe -- be -- being though -- we -- uh, my landlord was a Born-Again Christian and would never let have -- serve alcohol. So because of us not serving alcohol, we were the only place in town at night that was kind of lively and exciting but didn't have alcohol. So we became, um, you know, from about eight to eleven at night we were kind of the hangout for the Christian students, which is wild because --
That's ironic.
[T]he Christian students would be there. Yeah, eating their fudge pie and Diet Cokes... And -- and you know, the uh, you know, the sign -- the sign on our door, which was at the time a thing that we actually came up with. It said, "No," uh, "No shoes. No Shirt. Who Cares." And, you know, our attitude was -- was very relaxed and I -- it's one of the reasons we were such a big hit because people -- people walked in there and immediately felt relaxed... And, uh, you know, people could pretty much do whatever they wanted. People would bring coolers in there. In fact, one time we had a -- I remember -- we had a late night show and some fraternity guys brought a keg in. I mean like, you know, how much can you drink during an hour and a half movie?
------
Well
and I, um, read on your website about the cafe and it having like a big
long community table in the -- in the lobby area where it was.
We had a long counter... And that was the counter where like, Willie Morris would like plant... himself after the bars closed and just sit there, and people would gather around him. It was a wonderful place for conversation.
How did you name the place? I've read how you named the Hoka, but you can repeat that here and then also speak to how you named the Moonlite [Cafe].
When I first came here -- when I was trying to figure out what to name the place, I was reading a history of Lafayette County, and I saw a Princess Hoka, who is the Chickasaw Indian who sold the land to the white man. And that's -- that's when I came up with the, um, the Hoka. It was also during my, um, psychedelic days, and um, the initials for The Hoka Cinema were, um THC, which is the active ingredient in marijuana. So I -- there was just a lot of -- but it was mainly because of, uh, the Chickasaw Indian, Princess Hoka... Um, and then the Moonlite Cafe I just, um, I -- I just the-I just liked that name, and we were open late, and something about that name just really appealed to me. And, uh, we called the place the Moonlite Cafe, which confused people a lot because we would put an ad in the paper sometime about the Moonlite Cafe, and people wouldn't know were it was... And then we -- and then, like a couple years after we did it, we -- we were -- someone showed us a -- a sign, which is now where City Grocery has their catering [across South 14th Street from where the new Power House Community Arts Center is located]... there was a building down there that was named the Moonlite Cafe from maybe the [nineteen] twenties or [nineteen] thirties. AE: Well, tell me a little bit more about the food that you served and, um, maybe where you got some more of your recipes. Did you have some of your personal recipes that you cooked over there?
[W]ell I would -- I was just famous for, you know, going to places and seeing things on menus and stealing them. But, you know, we would do a thing too where -- a lot of times there would be years when we would do breakfast too. And just be open all the time. You know, we'd just, you know, we would start things and stick with it for awhile and then -- then all of a sudden people wouldn't show up to cook. You know it's -- you know when you do breakfast on weekends you got to be there early, and seems as though most of the people that worked at the Hoka were party animals... And, you know, to be there at, you know seven to, you know, start making the pancake batter and everything. I remember getting a great recipe for pancakes from my aunt. And I -- I still have the, uh, I recently retrieved the, uh -- I was out of town when the Hoka was closed down. I would have never closed it down. But a friend of mine had retrieved the menu -- the box that had all the menus in it -- and this, um, this recipe that my aunt had for pancakes had um, cornmeal in it. Not much cornmeal, but just enough -- a couple tablespoons -- that made the pancakes crunchy. Just a little bit of crunch. They were absolutely delicious. Um, and we -- we had this excellent kind of bacon that we found that only restaurants were -- it's -- it was a Bryan [brand] bacon, but it was a real thick..It was this brand of Bryan bacon that -- it -- I never could -- you know, because when we would run out of it, I would try to go to the grocery store and find it. And it wasn't -- and the food purveyors do that a lot, there are certain things that they only sell to restaurants. And it was a -- it was a really thick bacon, and we would -- we would bake it in the oven instead of cook -- cooking it in a pan. And it would really be crisp, and it was just wonderful. And it made that "Love at First Bite" an extra special sandwich. It was just the little things like that. And then just instead of using regular mustard on the "Love at First Bite," we would use that Zatarain Creole mustard. You know, we would just -- we would come up with something that was just a little bit out of the ordinary. And -- and it would make all the difference. We would -- we -- we had made a salad back then, and nobody else was doing it. We would -- we'd put roasted sunflower seeds on it. And we were serving ranch dressing. And that combination of the sunflower seeds and ranch dressing just hit. And, uh, we -- and that ranch dressing, I can't tell you how much of that we went through. You know, I think people if -- if -- if one would have had a syringe, I think people would have shot that stuff up.
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Did you have any fruits or vegetables or anything that came from local growers?
No, we did not at that time. No. We didn't. Uh, this is kind of -- kind of before -- we would have, you know, I -- I'd talk to people about that and I -- I was at a point where I was starting to really get interested in really healthy stuff, but we never, um, we never did that. I always wanted to do a juice bar, but I never did get to it. In fact, if I do open a place again -- which I hope I do -- it will def -- one of the first things we'll put in there is a juice bar.
------
Well,
and I've read that you had a, um, vegetarian chili on the menu.
Yeah, we had a delicious -- delicious vegetarian chili that we made up with, um, with black beans. I'm glad you -- I had -- I had forgotten about that. Um, another thing we did is, um, there was this Great American Harvest Bread Company. And they were at the time -- there may still -- still may be one in Memphis, but I'm not sure. But they had phenomenal breads, and I would -- I would go once a week to Memphis, when I went go to pick up the films. [Loud coughing in background] And I would go by there and buy their breads, and I would also stop by a deli up there and get their bagels. We -- we did introduce Oxford to bagels. I will -- I will say that. Um, nobody was serving bagels. Um, the grocery stores didn't have them at the time. This was before those horrible Lender's Bagels were in the groc -- those things are horrible. Um, but I -- I would -- I would always seek out things, and I would go to Memphis, and I would find different suppliers for things and it was -- you know, sixty to seventy percent of a sandwich is the bread, and I would go there and get the this phenomenal bread from this American Harvest. And the -- the bread was actually sweeter than most breads are, but it -- it -- it made a sandwich just so delicious.
[W]ell what year did the Hoka close? And the Moonlite Cafe?
[I]t was [nineteen] ninety-six. And I was away; working in Atlanta, at a wonderful restaurant in Atlanta called R. Thomas [Deluxe Grill], which is still open. It's a twenty-four hour, uh, restaurant on Peachtree that at three in the morning you can come in and get fettuccini, uh, they have an all natural juice bar, uh, all free-range chickens. It's a wonderful -- it's right at the start of Buckhead. It's a wonderful restaurant and, uh, you know, I -- I have to be straightforward, the Hoka was not clean -- not kept well, you know. It was a bunch of us drunks, you know, and we didn't really keep it that clean. But working for this restaurant in Atlanta, I learned so much about maintenance and cleaning and everything. And one of the reasons that I want to do a restaurant again is just to show people that I -- I have learned how to clean. [Both laugh] And, um, you know, the way food should be served to people.
Well you have quite a legacy here, so I'm sure people would be anxious to see a reincarnation of that Ronzo [Ron Ôs nickname] restaurant endeavor.
Well, it would be -- it would be fun. You know, there is a reputation but, you know, like someone like you that has never eaten there, um, sometimes the hearing about it makes it actually better than it was... And it was really a dump... You know, it was an old cotton warehouse, you know, there was -- the floor was on a slant, and occasionally old cotton seeds would drop on your head, you know. And, um, but it did -- it did -- there was no doubt about it did -- it did have a -- there was something -- it did have a spirit there. It was, um, it was a magical place because just -- you know, to me it was an everyday gig, and I never realized it was so magical, but just to see the way people reflect upon it, and the way I'm -- there's -- there's not been more then two days that go by that someone doesn't come up to me and -- and tell me about a story from it or [says] please to open it up again. And every time somebody says, "Please open it up again." My pat answer's become, "Just cut me a check... and I'll open it tomorrow." [Laughs]
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