Pendennis Club
218 West Muhammad Ali Blvd.
Louisville, KY 40202
(502) 584-4311
www.pendennisclub.org

“The Old-Fashioned was originated by a Kentucky man, Colonel Pepper…He had been in the whiskey business. They used some of his whiskey when they made that first Old-Fashioned and, of course, the Old-Fashioned, it was made at the old club. It wasn’t made here in this building; it was made down at the old club." – John C. Johnson

Established in 1881, the Pendennis Club was founded as Louisville’s premier private men’s club. The place is steeped in history. It’s where the club’s first headwaiter, Henry Bain, created his now-famous sauce and where Louisville lore says the Old-Fashioned was invented. In 1952, at the age of sixteen, John C. Johnson got a job washing dishes at the club. After working his way through the ranks, Johnson was promoted to head waiter, only the third person to hold the title since Henry Bain did seventy-one years earlier. Johnson is a walking encyclopedia of information about the club and has collected more than a few stories over the years. He also witnessed a groundbreaking moment in the club’s history: its integration. After fifty years at the Pendennis Club, Johnson tried to retire, but he just couldn’t stay away. Today, he serves as director of membership relations and continues to train new employees in the art of good service.

EDITED TRANSCRIPT

NOTE: What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.

Subject: John C. Johnson, Director of Membership Relations
Date: January 16, 2008
Location: The Pendennis Club
Interviewer & Photographer: Amy Evans

---

Amy Evans:  This is Amy Evans on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 for the Southern Foodways Alliance. I’m in Louisville, Kentucky, at the Pendennis Club in the library, and I’m sitting with Mr. John C. Johnson. Mr. Johnson, would you please state your name and your birth date for the record?

John C. Johnson:  My name is John C. Johnson, John Charles Johnson, and my birth date is December 19, 1935. I was born and reared here in Louisville, Kentucky, and I’ve been here at the Pendennis Club—when I retired, I had fifty years of service in and, of course, I’ve been coming in since I have retired, for the last two days of the week—two menial days of the week—and now it’s about six—fifty-six years, so in all it’s about fifty-six years of service, if you want to add the retirement time with the regular time that I put in.

So does that mean you started working here in [nineteen]’52-ish?

That is correct, 1952. I was sixteen years old, and I was still in school and I came in, and I worked in the evening time in the dish room in the basement, and I would go to school everyday. And when I got out of school, then I’d come in here and work in the evening. And sometimes I would work kind of late, especially on weekends. But I worked there in the basement and the dish room until I almost got out of school. Finally, I got out of school; when I did graduate from school, I had an opportunity to come in here and continue working, and I had a chance to become a bus boy, and I went into the main dining room on the second floor and worked in the main dining room as a bus boy. I worked there for maybe about a year as a bus boy, and then I moved up to the head bus man and had the opportunity to become a waiter, so I went on and took advantage of that opportunity and became a waiter. Then I had the chance to become a captain of the waiters, as time went on, and I become captain of the dining room over the waiters. And then in time my mentor, which was the Head Waiter, James B. Spann, decided to have me as his assistant, and I become the Assistant Head Waiter. And that went on and finally, in time, I become the—well, in years to come, Mr. Spann said he was going to retire and he did around about ’71 to ’72. I don’t remember the exact date now. But, however, he retired and when he retired, then I become the Head Waiter, the maître d' of the club. And I did that for about twenty years. And then I was approached by the president of the club to become the general manager, and I took that job. And I worked that job for about three years and a half, and it got to a point where I found myself getting in stressful positions. And my family—no time with them—and there was just so many things that had become involved that I went to the Board and asked them if they would relieve me of the manager—the general manager’s duties, which they did. And they bestowed on me another position, which was—which still is the title of Director of Membership Relations.

-----

Well do you mind if we back up to when you were sixteen and you first started working here? I’m wondering how you heard that there was an opening here at the club.

I was at the point where I really needed a job because I was going to school and I needed some—well, you need some help and I needed a little help from a money standpoint, and I had a paper-carrying job. But that wasn’t allowing me the money that I needed to make, and it was a lot of conditions there that I got kind of fed up with. And it was one of those things where I was in the Boy Scouts and, being in the Boy Scouts, you get to meet a lot of people and a lot of young men; and so in the Boy Scouts there was a—another gentleman that was—that was a—a Scout and he was always talking about this place and his uncle. His uncle was the Head Waiter at that time, Mr. Spann, the gentleman I mentioned—mentioned earlier. So in talking with this gentleman, this young man, Jimmy Hayes was his name, he said, “Well, if you need a job that bad,” he said, “maybe you can go up and talk to my uncle, who is the Head Waiter at the Pendennis Club, and maybe he can work something out for you.” I said, “Well why don’t you just mention my name to him and—and see if you can get something going for me?” He said, “Well, it’s best you go talk to him because that’s the way it is. To—to get someone into work for him, you got to be a person that can make a personal appearance with him and talk with him. And he’s—he’s a tough man to deal with.” I said, “Well if he’s that bad, then maybe I better forget about that.” He said, “No, I’ll talk to him. I’ll mention—I’ll mention your name to him, and all you have to do is go up and talk with him.” I said, “Okay." So one day after school I came up and had a little interview with Mr. Spann and I run—run down my life—or my family background and stuff to him and—and told him how badly I needed a job and I wanted a job that would pay some kind of a decent salary. And he said, “Well, if you want to work, I don’t have no time for foolishness. If you want to work, I can make a place for you and—and there will be a place. And it won't be the most proudest position, but it will be a position where you can come in and you’ll have a job. You said you want to work; I got a job for you.” So I said, “Well, I’ll do anything you tell me to do.” So he told me about the dish room job, and he told me the hours and—and the pay and—and that it was a job for him and that he’s looking for me here everyday that I’m supposed to be here and on time. And, of course, he said, “I realize you’re in school, but I still want you here on time.” So I told him—I promised him that I would be on time. So that following Monday I came in and went to work, and that’s where I was at until things started changing for me, in that dish room washing dishes and pushing dishes from the basement to the second floor to the kitchen. And it was one of those things wherein that the work was hard, but it was one of those things with me; it was just a matter of a job, and I needed a job, and it worked out pretty well for me, even though it was confining and it was hard and it was sometimes late. But it was one of those things where I just hung in there and kept on working.

Did you know anything or just hear anything or in the, you know, kind of general knowledge of coming up in Louisville about the Pendennis Club before you came here and spoke with Mr. Spann?

No, I had no idea. And I probably passed this place 100 times, going and coming on a bus or maybe on a bicycle, but I had no idea what this place was. I had no—no—no—no nothing, as far as knowing as far as about the Pendennis Club or what it stood for or where it—or that it was even a such thing as a Pendennis Club. And I was amazed when I did get here and came into this building and seen what this building looked like inside. It was like something out of a movie. So it—it was one of those things where Jimmy Hayes, the nephew of Mr. Spann, if it hadn’t been for him, I never would have gotten here, as far as being an employee.

So how many decades would [Mr. Spann’s] career here at the Club have spanned?

Well I don’t remember exactly now what year he came here to work. But it’s my understanding that he did come from down South—from Alabama—and I think he may have come up here as a waiter and he worked then under Mr. Tally, Frank Tally, who was the Head Waiter. And I think, primarily, that’s where he got elevated from as time went on because when he came back from the Army, Mr. Tally was almost in the position of retiring; and Mr. Tally hung on for about two or three years as the Head Waiter, and then I think Mr. Spann eventually took over the Head Waiter’s job from Mr. Tally. So that’s going back in the—I want to say that—that went back in the early—late ‘40s, actually, because the war was over with, and I came in here ’52, so Mr. Spann was the Head Waiter when I came in here. He’s the one that hired me in here. But Mr. Tally was still here because I was able enough to work under him as a bus boy in the main dining room on the second floor, and he was an old man then his-self because he—Tally is the man that took over for Mr. Henry Bain. And that was in 1930, I think, when Mr. Tally took over this club as the maître d'. And so Mr. Tally took it over from Henry Bain and then Mr. Spann took it over from Mr. Tally, and then, of course, I took it over from Mr. Spann. So actually, this building here has only had three—well it’s had more since—since me but it had three headwaiters in here during my time. The first one was Mr. Tally and the second one was Mr. Spann and the third one was me. So that takes you back a little bit.

And the Pendennis Club, itself, is over 100 years old?

Yes. Pendennis Club was originated in 1881. It was formed by about seven people, originally, and was formed from poker games. These men had a thing where they would play poker and they played poker in each other’s homes. They rotated around, and they came to a time where they played over their normal playing time and they got caught in the man’s home trying to finish up a poker game when the staff came in and just started setting up the breakfast table. And they were all totally embarrassed because they didn’t realize that they had played poker that long and they didn’t have no idea that they were going to get caught with the staff coming in and seeing them all sitting around a table, playing cards. So they all decided that they needed to get a place where they could play poker without being interrupted and embarrassing their selves or embarrassing anyone else. So they rented out a storefront over a grocery store, the upstairs over a grocery store about a block away from here and they—in fact, it was down there where the Seelbach [Hilton] sits on Fourth [Street] and Muhammad Ali [Boulevard]…But it was a grocery store there where it was owned by a man by the name of Ross, and they went in there and they rented that storefront out from him, and they decided to make a little clubhouse up there, and that’s what they did. And they started from there. That’s where it started from and, of course, as time went on, a lot of the people of the town heard about it, and they wanted to get involved and they wanted to join, and it just took off from there.

-----

Well speaking about the early days of the club, the club is well known for Henry Bain’s sauce, and what can you tell me about the man Henry Bain?

Well the only thing I can tell you is what I heard, and a lot of that I’ve forgotten because Mr. Tally, as I said, the Head Waiter here, he was the man that worked under Henry Bain, and, of course, Henry Bain, he came to the Pendennis Club as a young man too. And of course, when he came to the Pendennis Club, he came to the Pendennis Club as the elevator boy. He run the elevator. And he, of course, got promoted as he went along because he was a very smart man with people’s names. Once he learned your name, he never forgot it and everybody he knew by name…But, like I say, he was an outstanding person. And then Henry Bain, the other thing he had going for him was the meat sauce that he created and he created that sauce and it was one of those things where when someone had a party and, from what I was told, someone had a party with some real choice tenderloin of beef, and they wanted to really, really, really make an outstanding party, so Henry Bain made up a little of his sauce—went back in the kitchen and made up a little of his sauce that he had been experimenting with and put some out alongside the tenderloin, and everybody that tried that sauce on that meat was just overwhelmed with it. They just couldn’t believe the meat was good. The meat was excellent, but that sauce made the meat taste so much better than you could imagine, so everybody was really intrigued in that…And Henry Bain, every time someone would have a party, a big party or a little party they wanted some of Henry Bain’s sauce, so Henry Bain kept making the sauce, and he would add it onto people’s parties, and they had sauce and enjoyed the sauce. And it was just one of those things wherein that Henry Bain decided that he would try to market the sauce. And then, from what I was told, Henry Bain had all the ingredients that he needed to do this, and when he tried to market it the sauce had so many patented ingredients in it that he could not market it. He couldn’t patent it. So in time, Henry Bain winded up selling the recipe to the Pendennis Club and, of course, the Pendennis Club bought the sauce, plus they bought him a home over in Indiana, and that’s where Henry Bain lived at and, of course, that’s where Henry Bain died at.

Now Henry Bain didn’t make it to this club, this building here. He was in the old club that was down there on Muhammad Ali [Boulevard], the old Belmont Home; he was there. Of course they bought the grounds here for this club in 1926, and they cleared it off and they started building, and they moved into this building in 1929. And, of course, Henry Bain died on May 3, 1928. And, of course, he died a year before they moved into this building, so that’s when Frank [Tally] wind up in 1930 taking over for Henry Bain here in this Club because Henry Bain had passed away.

-----

Was Henry Bain an African American gentleman or was he white?

He was an African American. And, like I say, I think he originated from down South…I don’t remember the exact age he was when he came into this club. But I want to say he was a teenager—fifteen or sixteen, somewheres in that age bracket…So as far as his food background, I don’t know what they were, but I do know as time went on he was no teenager when he created that meat sauce, though. He was in his early twenties or early thirties, somewheres in that bracket, I think. But anyway, in creating that meat sauce, like I say, he created it and it was one of those sauces that people really, really loved it. And, of course, I can recall how crazy people was about it. They would buy it and take it home with them, or they would come in and—. I’ve seen people put that Henry Bain on chicken. Primarily, it was a [red] meat sauce, but they’d put it on chicken, fish, vegetables. I even know one man that used to put it on ice cream, he loved it so well, and that’s really taking it another step. The club still makes that Henry Bain [Sauce] and, of course, it’s made with a lot—with a couple ingredients that you can't get anymore, as far as I’ve been told. Two of the main ingredients, you can't get now. One of them, I don’t remember what it was but the one is called pickled walnuts, and pickled walnuts you can't find that anymore, so they use chutney. And I don’t remember what that other one was but it’s a meat sauce that you can really do a lot of things with and, like I say, it’s great on any kind of meat but especially beef. It’s just something about that sauce that makes every bite a little bit better than it was before and, of course, I can say that from self-experience because I’ve been eating it for fifty-some years, [Laughs] and I still love it.

-----

Well, speaking of recipes that have come out of the club here, tell me about the history of the Old-Fashioned here at the Pendennis Club.

The only thing I can tell you is this that the Old-Fashioned was originated by a Kentucky man, and I think his name was Colonel Pepper. And I understand he created it, but I think he may have picked that recipe up from the Pendennis Club, from what I was told, because he had been in the whiskey business. They used some of his whiskey when they made that first Old-Fashioned and, of course, the Old-Fashioned, it was made at the old club. It wasn’t made here in this building; it was made down at the old club. And, of course, it’s my understanding that the—I don’t even know or remember the bartender’s name now that was responsible for making that. I want to say that I was told that this Colonel showed this bartender how to build that thing and told him what to put in it. But, at that time, the Old-Fashioned was made with a sugar cube. You take a sugar cube and you put it in a little splash of water and then you take about three dashes of Angostura bitters and shake on it and then you take a spoon, and you muddle that up, and you dissolve it—the sugar and the water together—and then you add just a little touch of bourbon in there, a splash of bourbon in there to really build it up a little bit. And then, once you get it all muddled together, then you pour in a good shot of bourbon, and then you put in some ice cubes, then you stir that around, then you take a twist of lemon and you run it around the rim of the glass and you drop that in there and then you put a cherry in there, and you add a little bit more water, and then you give it a good stir, and you put a slice of orange just for the garnish of it. That all goes together, and it’s sort of like having a—something for a medicinary [medicinal] purposes or something that to make you feel—well, it does make you feel better, no doubt about that, but to help you get over a cold or something. But that’s originally the way it was made because, like I said, Frank Tally, he taught his brother, who a lot of years came here as a bartender. He taught him how to make that Old-Fashioned and I watched the brother, I watched him make a many Old-Fashioneds in my time, and it was always the procedure…But it originated here at the club, but I think it was that at the old club, not at this building but the old building.

Do you know why they called it the Old-Fashioned?

No, I don’t. Now that’s a good question, and that’s something I’ll have to see if I can track down myself because I really don’t [know]. But it’s really a nice drink.

-----

Does the club accept new members, and how does that work these days?

Yeah, we accept new members. In fact, we have different kinds of classifications for members. We have Resident Members, we have Non-Resident Members. At one time, we had a lot of members from France, some from Canada, some from England, some from different countries…There’s about seven different classifications of different memberships. And, of course, we still take members in. We have Jewish members; we have some black members; we have some Indian members; and we have some lady members…Lady members that are on the same equivalent as a man member, and they pay the same amount of joining fee and the same amount of dues that a man member pays. And this is something that most people don’t understand because they’re still living in the past with the theory that there is no mixture of membership here, but there is a mixture of membership and there is, like I said, there’s, you know, black, white, Indian, Jewish and I don’t know—if that ain’t a mixture, I don’t know what else you can call a mixture.

When did the club start being so all inclusive?

Well this happened in the last ten years. Of course, when I first came here and probably way before then, ladies was not allowed through that front door. You were only allowed to come in this side door over here, and they had to use side steps or the elevator to go upstairs. And that was before I came, and after I got here. Well, like I say, ten years ago, the membership was broken down to where the club was accepting—and still is if you qualify. It doesn’t make no difference what your race is. If you qualify, it’s just like joining a church; if you qualify, then you become a member of that church. But if you don’t qualify, then you just can't be a member. So it doesn’t matter who you are or what you are… And, like I say, it’s been about ten years, I think, when all of that change is made and, of course, it’s been good.

-----

So how do you, personally, go about teaching someone the art of good service?

Well, boy, that’s a long dragged out story there, but [Laughs] I guess that it all depends on first you want to see what kind of—what their intentions are, at least that’s the way I look at it; you have to see what their intentions are and what their, you know—their—their needs of a job is and then you can find out what they know ,and you find out what they know and what they don’t know and then you can sit down and orally is one thing; talking is one thing. But you got to put the person through the test. You got to let them do some on-hand training and then watch them and see that they do the thing the way you think they ought to do it or the way you want them to do it. And if they make the right move, then you show them how to do that particular thing, and if they make the wrong move, you still have to show them how to do that certain thing but I like to say, on-hand training is the thing that you have to sort of take a person and walk them through it and then let them try to do it from way you show them how you do it. That’s what you got to do, really.

Is there any one thing that you would say is the most important rule about giving good service?

Well, I think first you need to have the right frame of mind; you got to have the desire to want to do for people. You’ve got to have the a desire to want to do something for people.

---

To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.

Use the search function below to browse the Southern Foodways site for oral history topics, people or places we've featured, or general information about your favorite foods and foodways.