Tilford Winery & Farms
126 Berrypatch Lane
Kathleen, GA 31047
(478) 396-3025
www.tilfordwinery.com
My grandmother made the wine and my mother would make jelly… [T]hey will get the skin juice and boil it down, get the skin juice to make muscadine juice. You also could make muscadine syrup as well, and so those are type things that they use there. But basic thing that was no different type technique more—no more than steaming the juice and cooking it down and let it cool down to a jelly. [Y]ou can put it on toast, bagels, even make muscadine bread and you also can make muscadine pie. – Robert Taylor
Tilford Winery in the central Georgia town of Kathleen, is named in honor of Tilford Taylor, the father of proprietor Robert Taylor. The winery – as well as some of the grape arbors – is set behind Robert’s white clapboard home, in a suburban neighborhood. Robert, who works a full-time job at the Warner Robbins Air Force Base, believes his operation is the only one in Georgia owned and operated by an African American.
Robert’s family hails from downstate Mississippi, specifically the small town of Utica. Although there is a tradition in wine making among members of the family, Robert did not consider making wine from native muscadine grapes until, in 1999, he was diagnosed with lymphoma. He was out of work for 15 months, and during that time, he began exploring the health-giving properties of resveratrol, a compound in muscadine grapes – and the wines made from them – that is now being employed as a nutriceutical, in response to a number of ailments.
Tilford Winery uses Magnolia and Carlos varieties of muscadine to make white wine. Noble is their red wine grape of choice. Sales are accomplished by way of the Internet.
What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.
Subject: Robert Taylor
Date: August 28, 2008
Location: Tilford Winery, Kathleen, Georgia
Interviewer & Photographer: John T Edge
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John T Edge: This is Kathleen, Georgia, not far from Warner Robbins and I’m with Mr. Robert Taylor. Mr. Taylor would you please tell me your date of birth?
Robert Taylor: It’s 1952, the 8th—the 9th of April.
Just tell me what was your motivation when you began this?
Well I started out as a harvester. I had planned to be a grower for the wineries and that got a little bit rough because of transportation. So I had all these grape plants sort of like eight acres of grapes. So what I did instead of wasting the grapes I came up with this idea to making juice and jellies and wine. And come to find out that you can do more with the wine than with the jelly so that’s what started to move it from there.
We started out making 200 gallons a year when it first started, and as you worked the grapes and did the vineyard management, pruning back every year, so you had an increase in yield, so basically the thing I had to do is find a way to process those grapes. So we started out making wine, and from there we made organic wine; we don't have to worry about spraying fungicides, pesticides, and herbicides. So we did everything naturally. So the basic thing is the organic type of operation but we don't push the organic operation because you have to get certification. But basically the thing is all natural grapes and we process in a stainless steel drums and we do approximately 2,000 [gallons] a year now from the grapes that—.
And so they—we used to—the basic grape would be the Magnolia, the Carlos, and the Noble; those are the wines they make. The Magnolia and the Carlos make the white wine; we use one—one grape to make the red wine which is the Noble. And it has all the nutriceutical properties that’s in there that helps you with your health. So basically that’s the thing that got me started with the grapes.
The nutriceutical properties interested you?
Yeah; the nutriceutical, basically if you have rheumatoid arthritis, any type of sleeping issues, if you drink the Muscadine wine it will tend to relax you and put you to sleep. Also the wine I make, you don't have any hangovers or headaches. And that comes from over say about 35 women plus, you know, and so it’s a good wine. And also that inspired me to make wine—the Muscadine wine was that you can't find a good sweet wine in the country, so basically you want a basic sweet wine that’s not too tart and not too sweet. So basically the muscadine is a good wine for that. And also muscadine is a native—native grape of the US, so it’s—have properties that doesn’t—you can't cross-breed it with the European grape which is the vinifera grape so the basic thing that we use the Southern type grape which we call the muscadine which is in the rotunda folia family. And those—
And that matters to you to use a Southern grape?
Yes; because it’s native to this country and actually I always tell people the muscadine is sort of like the catfish you know. They have—it’s—it was presumed as a wild grape and it was hard to get to but once you put in that cultivator and stuff to cultivating it it’s a very nutritious grape and it have a lot of properties; you can use the grape seed oil.
Even if the wine goes bad which will become acidity, the acidity which is a vinegar—vinegar wine, so the basic thing you have a natural process right there—vinegar wine which you can use for salad dressing and you can use it for marination. So there is nothing thrown away with the muscadine itself and then also you can use the—the skins and the seeds for other medicinal purposes. Most of the wineries are dealing with the skins and they making properties out of it they call the Purple Pill, whatever the case might be—the purple coloration and the skin the one that has the properties in it that they help you—have the phenols in them which break up the HDL in your blood and keep it from clotting. So basically you have great blood flow and that’s the reason that most people drink the wine because of the fact that it opens up your arteries so you don't have arthritic pain.
Did you have family health issues or your own health issues that drove you toward this or—?
Just back in 1999 I had lymphoma and I was out of work for over 15 months and while I was out I was experimenting with the—with the grapes and the wines. I made in the wine process while I was doing that and come to find out that I will sterilize the juice and as I was taking the juice and it sort of helped me with my cancers. So I—I will recommend that you know some of that so you know my oncologist said that was a great deal that you’re doing that, so it’s all natural. So we couldn’t do anything to actually to pasteurize it so basically we had to heat it up, pasteurize it to—in order to ingest it into the system. And so it—it worked out pretty great. So with me having a health issue it helped me a whole lot and also I had other people that had health issues. And they began to drink the juice itself and they had saw some improvement in their health after they drink the juice.
And basically the thing that you want to say—maintain your weight, lose weight; you can drink one glass of wine a day which is we say about four to six ounces, which will help your digestive track. If you have any type of digestion problem or circulatory problem, basically, the muscadine wine is a good thing for you to have. And circulatory is where, because most of the time people have heart issues, and basically that’s what the in the phenols in the wine itself will break down into your system. It’s all natural and it will help replenish your system as well.
And do you have a history of—of muscadine and scuppernong raising and winemaking in your family that goes back previous generations?
One basic thing when was kids we went out in the woods and harvest—we won't say harvest; we climbed the trees and we picked muscadine(s) and we made—we had my mother and my grandmother made muscadine jelly and normally they would do probably about three or four gallons of muscadine wine and basically that was it you know. So basic thing the only problem we had was you had to climb the trees; we was at risk there. So now over the years we figured out how can we put these on the grounds so we can harvest them? So that’s a little bit safe there.
And where was it that you grew up that this was taking place?
Well I grew up in Utica, Mississippi, a little small town southwest of Jackson, Mississippi and we farmed there. We had a 40-acre farm there and we had muscadine like in the—the wooded area. We had quite a few muscadine; we could pick 30 to 40-pounds of muscadine in the evening and like I said that was like snacks—they make great snacks and those is the great things we had back then. But that’s the only history that we have but down through the years, and basic thing—that’s what we’ll just go with the history of making wine.
And—and when you—if—if you—is it your mother or father who made the wine occasionally?
Actually it was my grandmother; my grandmother made the wine and my mother would make jelly because they’re from an older generation so the best thing they had natural sugar, so the basic thing that you can—when you’re making jelly you use the—they will get the skin juice and boil it down, get the skin juice to make muscadine juice. You also could make muscadine syrup as well and so those are type things that they use there. But basic thing that was no different type technique more—no more than steaming the juice and cooking it down to—and let it cool down to a jelly. When you put the pectin -it has a natural pectin in it but then if you wanted to get it a little bit stiffer you will add the one that you purchase from the store to make a jelly. And basic thing that was it. You know like you would have muscadine jelly; you can put it on toast, bagels, even make muscadine bread and you also can make muscadine pie. I have seen several people use the muscadine pie but I never actually got into—.
Those whole pies, the people that are making—using the—they’re using the slips, the grape skins?
Actually they—no; they use—actually they use the pulp to make the muscadine pie to get that. The basic thing they use—they process apples and—and the juice which makes the apple taste like the muscadine itself to give you some type of solid. But basic thing that’s what they’re using—they use there and also they will use the muscadine skin as well, especially the purple. They would use it back for dye if you wanted to dye something that color and you used it if you wanted a cake like a marbled cake, you used it, you—extract—the color the from the skin and put it in whatever food that you’re going to use—use it as food coloring ‘cause it’s a natural food coloring as well.
Now when you began making wine did you think about your grandmother and how she did it or—?
Yes; in a way but she basically boiled her’s, but basic thing as a harvester you always have techniques. In order to get juice from—from any grapes they have to be crushed first and not pressed, so basic thing you have to get a crusher to crush them, so you crush them with hand and then you get a machine to crush them. That’s when you—that’s more a modern day time; back in—in their time they just boiled the juice out of the whole grape itself but the modern time you would crush the grapes to extract the two different juices. You would get the pulp juice and then you would get the skin juice. And basic thing you would let the juice sit for like two to three days on the skin and then you pressed—once you pressed the juice you would get all the juice out of the skins. And then you’d let it sit for a couple days and do it that way. But the pulp juice is a free-running juice when you send it through the press, you know once you crush it, so that’s the only difference there.
And when you make your wine do you make a fairly sweet Muscadine or a fairly dry wine and—and why?
Well actually I make the majority of wines sweet but wine is made dry. Wine can go into the vat syrupy sweet; what happens there during the fermentation—fermentation stages that sugar is turned to alcohol so it becomes dry. So all wine is made dry; the basic thing you sweeten wine at the end of the process when you’re getting ready to bottle it, so you sweeten it to taste but all wine is made dry. The fermentation takes all the sugar out and turns it into alcohol. Now if you want to preserve the juice from the—well you either pasteurize it through a hot process, a hot pressurization or cold pressers, cold pressurization meaning that it would be just like the day crushed it. So you would freeze it with all the—the enzymes, the wild yeast that would turn it—it would kill off all the bacteria(s) so it will preserve the wine itself and without putting anything in it. So that’s how you make your juice; you use—send it through a heat pressurization or cold pressurization. And that way you don't have to have any additives in it, no more and cap it off and bottle it and go from there.
And—and what do you call your bottling—your wine?
This is—the wine—the winery is Tilford Winery. Yeah; Tilford Winery. That’s the name after my father. His first name is Tilford Taylor and he’s just passed last—actually a couple months ago but we did it in his honor and actually we released a label back in ’04. We’ve been making wine over 15 years plus but we didn’t want to tease the market so basic thing we had enough wine in ’04 and we released the label so we’ve been moving ever since and—and the business sustained itself. So everything has been—been great; you know we don't have any unique marketing techniques no more than people call and say hey we’d like to come out. We’ll give you a tour. At the moment this is—we’re using this building here which is the 30 by 40; within the next three to four years we’ll have a 100 by 60 overlooking the vineyard, so basic thing because we want people to see the vineyard and also come to the winery. And they’ll have an understanding how stuff is done more so than one place.
Is there—the—the grapes that you’re growing, are these some that—that were on this property before or these—did you inherit or did you plant or—?
No; everything was from scratch—everything we do—we do our own propagation because of the fact that you can't get true vines if you go to a nursery. So basic thing you have to buy at least about 10 to 15 true vines and then you propagate from those true vines and you know what you have and that’s what basic thing that we do and basic thing, like I say we propagate like 2,000 or 3,000 vines a year and we also sell the vines as well also, the you know—to other people that wants to create vineyards there.
And—and do you find—do you find that—that you know as the South changes, as we have new immigrants that come into the South and transform the South as people move from the country to the city do you find that people—that muscadine for a while had fallen out of favor that people had neglected the muscadine? Or has it always been with us?
The Muscadine actually been always with us but you had to find a market for it and that market has come around real fast. I always tell people the muscadine you have to go back to the catfish in Mississippi. You know we grew up on the farm where you went down to the creek; this time of year you—you can get all kinds of catfish because they was in the mud hole. But they all would taste mud but once you started to taking that catfish out of the environment and putting them in a clean environment so you had seafood, so now everybody want—they crave for catfish so the same way with the muscadine. Once you take them and put them in a cultivar and manage them they become more tasty and they become more available. And that’s—that’s what makes them more popular. And also the muscadine can only be grown in the Southeast of the United States, so that’s a natural—this is a native grape to this area. So that’s a big plus right there; so the basic thing, you won't be able to get this grape anywhere else. It might grow but as far as production it won't grow anywhere else because if you put it in a place where it’s too cold or frost too late or too early it will wipe out your whole production. So the basic thing you have to be within a good area within the Southeast.
And that becomes an advantage for you in terms of marketing and other things. This is a local food; this is very much a regional food—?
Yeah; it’s more for a regional food, plus local, and like I say you have the muscadine—actually—actually started getting ripe—you can start harvesting some—the fresh fruit you can start to harvest them the first week in August and that operation goes—can go all the way up to mid-October, so you will have muscadine grapes for that time span in there. So that—that’s what you will look at there; so they have different varieties that begin earlier and then you have some variety—variety that in late, so basic thing you have enough to cover that whole span. And you will have some. Also if you harvest them you can freeze them and eat them frozen in the wintertime but if you just want them for fresh fruit they’ll last three to four weeks if you keep them the temperature at 55-degrees there.
Well they’re hardy and they’ve been with us for a long time.
Well they’ll be with us and normally once you give people an education and teach them about muscadine if you travel on the interstate you can see the muscadine vines. And it’s sort of like unique when people say oh let’s grow a muscadine vine. But if you travel on the highway or the interstate you can look over on the right-of-way there on the fence line and you’ll see muscadines hanging from the tree. You’ll see the vines; you won't see the grapes but you’ll see the vines there. And that’s one of the things that you want to educate people about the recognition of the muscadine itself. So you can tell that for all, and—but I don't recommend them stopping on the side of the road there and trying to harvest them because the snakes and then traffic hazards and stuff like that. But basic thing you want them in a controlled cultivar to—to harvest them and they’re not that hard to grow.
Like I say several years ago I took a vine to Memphis, Tennessee, to a great aunt and the vines were never pruned; they’re about 60-feet one way and 60-feet the other way. And so the whole neighborhood had scuppernong in their backyard. You know they didn’t prune them so nobody didn’t worry about them, so but they all had grapes in the area there from that one vine, and so I thought that was pretty unique there.
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